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 MH4U Expanded GreatSword List (Comparative GS Tables)

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Anubis
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PostSubject: MH4U Expanded GreatSword List (Comparative GS Tables)   Mon Mar 16, 2015 7:05 am

Alright, I finally got around to putting together my usual expanded GreatSword list, with semi-automatic pragmatic raw and attribute calculations. Keep in mind that these comparative GS tables are not meant to be a substitute for a proper GS tree, so a lot of information not immediately relevant to damage output and weapon metavalue is excluded. Think of this as a companion to a GS tree/forging list.

All of that said, I have cut down the spreadsheet I use for comparisons and calculations to what will hopefully be a relatively easy-to-use set of tables, basically just focusing on the weapons and their pragmatic raw/attribute values across the different grades of sharpness.

This resource is currently located at:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19M1f5G9IvZbuWm1l58r_hexFQiANg0P-K3saamKBP7c

The spreadsheet is set to read-only mode, but if you download it or copy & paste it, you can edit it as you will. Also, I have left some of the calculation formulas/functions in this spreadsheet, so if it downloads properly or you make sure not to just copy values only, the tables should retain their semi-automatic functionality. In other words, depending on how you handle it, you can view it as a static resource online, or use it as the base for a very oversimplistic, pseudo-damage (benchmark estimate) calculator.

General Viewing Notes:
As a matter of convenience and practicality, GS names are formatted such that underlined weapons are those that can be forged from scratch, so to speak, whereas bold GS names are the final upgrades their respective GS line. I have also included a side-column in this version noting the main paths (but not monster/material-specific lines) to make it easier for people to scan the document and find a GS at a glance.

Italicized names/values for attributes indicate a dormant attribute (i.e. one that needs the awakening effect to be active).

Pragmatic values in the sharpness-modified areas that are bold indicate that the corresponding weapon requires the Sharpness+1 effect to have that grade of sharpness. On a related note, if there are no such bold entries, it means the corresponding weapon does not reach a higher grade of sharpness beyond its default even with the skill effect. (Of course, it is also possible that I made a mistake - but please consult a GS tree before contacting me if you think that is the case.)

I have manually gone over the sharpness-modified values and simply cleared entries with no value (e.g. areas that would just have 0s, since the corresponding GS does not actually have that grade of sharpness). This is not a mistake...hopefully (again- this clearing of 0s was done manually, so if there are mistakes, feel free to let me know).

Advanced User Notes:

While this version of the spreadsheet is pretty limited and reduced compared to the main one I work with, I have left in a few input spaces.

If you look at columns I & J and U & V, you will find the input spaces for extra raw and attribute modifiers, respectively.

The tables are set up to compute new raw (column K) and attribute (column W) values, which are in turn used to automatically compute the corresponding pragmatic values across the board, so to speak.

Hopefully "static buffs" and "multipliers" are fairly self-explanatory. "Static buffs" refer to anything that can be represented as damage added directly to the base raw of a weapon. Note that the spreadsheet in its current form is not set up to use display values - use base values ( for GS, [display]/4.8 ) instead. Meanwhile "multipliers" refer to anything that can be represented as an overall damage multiplier. For more advanced number-crunching, keep in mind that technically this can include average adjustments, hitzones, stacked buffs...whatever, as long as you know what you're doing when you condense/convert things into a single multiplier.

Some basic examples of how to use these inputs are-
If you want to see the pragmatic values for the Iron Sword with powercharm and powertalon, use 15 for the "static buff" raw input - that is, type 15 into (row 3, column I) to modify the relevant values for the Iron Sword.

If you want to see how the pragmatic values for a critical hit with the Iron Sword, use 1.25 for the "multiplier" raw input - that is, type 1.25 into (row 3, column J) to modify the relevant values for the Iron Sword.

Also, keep in mind that the online resource is read-only. You'll have to download it or copy/paste into a spreadsheet of your own to make use of its semi-automatic functionality.

Other thoughts/notes:

Innate affinity is listed, but not accounted for in this version. I intend to release some alternate versions of this spreadsheet to address that at a later point. I've already done most of the work in that regard, and the spreadsheets I use account for affinity in a few different ways, but I have not decided how I want to arrange and format those for the public, so to speak.

I am also going to do a (relatively) brief write-up on affinity at some point that will hopefully give GS users a better idea of how to effectively account for affinity and incorporate it into their own calculations. Ever since MH4U came out, a lot of the GS threads I've seen remind me that I never got around to writing about my other method(s) for adjusting values/benchmarks for affinity (particularly in terms of addressing variable affinity states).

Also note that I may shift a few things around in the present version of the spreadsheet. I have been thinking about moving a lot of static information to the left of the GS names, so that they are closer to the pragmatic (sharpness-modified) areas of the overall spreadsheet - without the need to hide everything in between. I know it's not particularly easy on the eyes, especially for people who don't care about the input spaces and/or ~extra~ details that aren't actually necessary when viewing the pragmatic values themselves. I'll deal with all that too.

Call it a prototype.

Oh - one more thing (bonus points if you read that in the right voice) - on a technical note, the current spreadsheet uses the ~new~ sharpness modifiers I have seen floating around at a few places, including (and perhaps most notably) kiranico. If you don't like it or think the values are wrong, feel free to contact me with better references to clear things up. In any case, it's a simple enough matter to just manually edit the values to what they ~should~ be.

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PostSubject: Re: MH4U Expanded GreatSword List (Comparative GS Tables)   Mon Mar 16, 2015 6:37 pm

*sees -50% Kushala blade*

Wow... ok, that's uh... special.

Ok, so Kirin path, raw of 345.6 and Attribute of 103.2 at purple. Assuming 0 Lightning resist, would we assume it becomes 448.8, or would there be other calculations?

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PostSubject: Re: MH4U Expanded GreatSword List (Comparative GS Tables)   Mon Mar 16, 2015 6:55 pm

Heh, when Eisenfaust comes out, I'll probably try to make a set that pretty much guarantees anticrits just for the lulz. I think with Critical Eye-3 and wyvern virus affliction, I can just manage it. That'll put that measly -50% affinity to shame.

But lol...

Yeah, the choice of whether to account for affinity or not on the present table was a bit of a catch 22 - some GS ratings are kinda misleading without it, plenty of GS ratings are very misleading with it.

As for your question, damage calculation isn't quite so simple as to allow for 1:1 raw+element addition with those values. There are attack type modifiers to account for, and another major distinction is the fact that raw and elemental hitzone modifiers are pretty much never equal (as a general rule, elemental hitzone multipliers tend to be about half what the raw ones are for a given hitzone).

One of the other versions of this spreadsheet has spaces that account for hitzones and attack types, but I haven't had the time to making that anywhere near user-friendly, and I also haven't gotten around to linking it to the hitzone values for all the monsters in MH4U. Right now it's just a very rudimentary ~raw hitzone: 0,.05...,.95,1; elemental hitzone 0,...1~ kinda deal. Although strictly speaking, you can still effectively do that with the first version I've uploaded, since at the end of the day, most of it just comes down to multipliers.

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PostSubject: Re: MH4U Expanded GreatSword List (Comparative GS Tables)   Mon Mar 16, 2015 6:58 pm

I figured as much. Mostly my question was assuming as few variables as possible with hitzones and all, but things can never be that simple, huh?

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PostSubject: Re: MH4U Expanded GreatSword List (Comparative GS Tables)   Mon Mar 16, 2015 7:09 pm

Well...they sorta can be, but then you run in to the issue of basically sacrificing context and the validity that comes with it for the sake of (perhaps over)simplifying things. I mean, I can dig up some of the rough ~standard~ benchmarks for that sort of thing that worked reasonably well in MH3U to give you a multiplier that will adjust the element/attribute to be more realistic relative to the raw, but I'm about to head off to class in a bit.

Off the top of my head, I vaguely remember elemental damage being about 1/8~1/5 of the total damage dealt by a GS...so...I guess maybe something like a multiplier of something like .15 or .175 in the attribute column would give you a somewhat more realistic, of not accurate idea of how the raw and element might typically total. Then again, they could have changed things significantly. Also that's all very fuzzy and lazy maths on my part, so take it with a grain of salt.

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